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red winter
Incredible Member
- Oct 20, 2023
- #1
Where do you think Tim Drake's place in the DCU should be ? I could see him as DC's answer to Jessica Jones/Powers, mentoring young heroes or even better yet as an operative for an intelligence organization. Even better return to being Red Robin & do an intergalactic road trip with Conner Kent. Sorry but I feel that he's been cast aside by the Batman family.
thwhtGuardian
Extraordinary Member
- Oct 20, 2023
- #2
red winter said:
Where do you think Tim Drake's place in the DCU should be ? I could see him as DC's answer to Jessica Jones/Powers, mentoring young heroes or even better yet as an operative for an intelligence organization. Even better return to being Red Robin & do an intergalactic road trip with Conner Kent. Sorry but I feel that he's been cast aside by the Batman family.
Years ago I said let him be a super spy...but Dick's already done that now so it wouldn't be a unique direction anymore.
Zero Hunter
Extraordinary Member
- Oct 20, 2023
- #3
I say let him give up the hero identity and focus on college to take over Wayne Enterprises some day. The more they try to make him fit now the worse it gets.
thwhtGuardian
Extraordinary Member
- Oct 20, 2023
- #4
Zero Hunter said:
I say let him give up the hero identity and focus on college to take over Wayne Enterprises some day. The more they try to make him fit now the worse it gets.
He works just fine as a superhero though.
S
scary harpy
Astonishing Member
- Oct 20, 2023
- #5
Zero Hunter said:
I say let him give up the hero identity and focus on college to take over Wayne Enterprises someday. The more they try to make him fit now the worse it gets.
thwhtGuardian said:
He works just fine as a superhero though.
It does feel like Tim and Young Justices time has passed and we are in a new era.
Tim, Kon, Cassie and Bart seem to be adrift.
Tim needs a new name, new direction and... go to college and prepare to be the new Lucius Fox. (Someone needs to make money for Bruce!)
Godlike13
Dynamic Member
- Oct 20, 2023
- #6
Retirement. He wasn’t cast aside, he was rejected. Current audiences just aren’t very interested in him.
thwhtGuardian
Extraordinary Member
- Oct 20, 2023
- #7
Godlike13 said:
Retirement. He wasn’t cast aside, he was rejected. Current audiences just aren’t very interested in him.
Current audiences just don't like books with terrible art and a mediocre story. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with the character.
Godlike13
Dynamic Member
- Oct 20, 2023
- #8
thwhtGuardian said:
Current audiences just don't like books with terrible art and a mediocre story. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with the character.
Its not like these books started strong and fell off a cliff, audiences aren't really giving them a chance to begin with. There is an intrinsic lack of current interest with the character.
Morgoth
Astonishing Member
- Oct 20, 2023
- #9
The very first thing DC needs to do is to get him out of this whole ''The Robin'' status they so desperately clinging to. They should give him something entirely different. Make him an independent hero in some other city, make a focus on some detective work. Or maybe, I don't know, send him working undercover in GCPD as a detective to uncover some conspiracy, something like Gotham Central, but starring Tim. I don't know, just get him out of this comfort zone for DC writers and some of his fans. Tim as Robin isn't going to work anymore, he's not targeting modern teenagers, they're not the same demographics DC was targeting with his character in the 90s, they don't give a ****.
Considering, that Damian is going to be Robin in DCU movies + there are rumors about Dick debuting and becoming Robin in Reeve's Batman sequel, there's no point to fight with inevitable. They have to reinvent the character, otherwise, he's done.
thwhtGuardian
Extraordinary Member
- Oct 20, 2023
- #10
Godlike13 said:
Its not like these books started strong and fell off a cliff, audiences aren't really giving them a chance to begin with. There is an intrinsic lack of current interest with the character.
There was no reason to give it a chance, Rossmo's art is horrible and Fitzmartin's writing is tepid at best. You can't put two terrible creators on a book and then go, "See, no one likes the character." It has nothing to do with the character and everything to do with it being a terrible book.
It's okay if you don't personally like Tim Drake, I personally prefer Dick and Damian myself, but to pretend that there isn't an audience for Tim seems disingenuous to me.
Digifiend
Uncanny Member
- Oct 20, 2023
- #11
scary harpy said:
It does feel like Tim and Young Justices time has passed and we are in a new era.
Tim, Kon, Cassie and Bart seem to be adrift.
Tim needs a new name, new direction and... go to college and prepare to be the new Lucius Fox. (Someone needs to make money for Bruce!)
Yeah... Tim was recently operating as Bruce's Robin again, but post-Gotham War that's not going to be a think any more. Bart's off somewhere with Max Mercury... which was a plot point in Jay Garrick's mini as it freed up Judy's old bedroom, which apparently he'd been using. Cassie's had her codename stolen by a new Wonder Girl, so she could do with a rebrand. She is due to appear in Tom King's Wonder Woman, in a new costume, so there may actually be plans for her. Conner's been used in Action Comics, but the writer is leaving, and so the Super Family status quo is ending. Tim, Bart, and Conner are all regressing.
Maybe with Babs going out more often as Batgirl, Tim could step up as a replacement Oracle?
P
phonogram12
Extraordinary Member
- Oct 20, 2023
- #12
Digifiend said:
Maybe with Babs going out more often as Batgirl, Tim could step up as a replacement Oracle?
As Babs fans felt about her, I just really don't see Tim's fans being happy about chaining him to a desk.
Seriously, all the character needs is a talented writer and a dynamic artist and the character's gold. This has been the salvation of many a character.
Frontier
Moderator
Staff member
- Oct 20, 2023
- #13
I wonder if some would say "Dating Bernard" .
Morgoth
Astonishing Member
- Oct 20, 2023
- #14
Frontier said:
I wonder if some would say "Dating Bernard"
.
Megan Fitzmartin would say it.
thwhtGuardian
Extraordinary Member
- Oct 20, 2023
- #15
Frontier said:
I wonder if some would say "Dating Bernard"
.
Nothing wrong with that.
Frontier
Moderator
Staff member
- Oct 20, 2023
- #16
thwhtGuardian said:
Nothing wrong with that.
Well, hopefully with better writing if nothing else.
Godlike13
Dynamic Member
- Oct 20, 2023
- #17
thwhtGuardian said:
There was no reason to give it a chance, Rossmo's art is horrible and Fitzmartin's writing is tepid at best. You can't put two terrible creators on a book and then go, "See, no one likes the character." It has nothing to do with the character and everything to do with it being a terrible book.
It's okay if you don't personally like Tim Drake, I personally prefer Dick and Damian myself, but to pretend that there isn't an audience for Tim seems disingenuous to me.
Tim is suppose to be the reason if as you say there is an audience for him. They can put one of their highest paid creators, a great artist, surround him with his friends, and still audiences wont show up. The more no one shows up, the less they can afford to put more costly creators on him. But again these projects are launching flat. Audiences aren't even showing up to see if the art is bad, or writing mediocre. But generally speaking, a character doesn't need to have the best book that is being published for readers to show up. Especially if they have an audience. Its okay if you personally like Tim Drake, but nonetheless all the recent projects they have done with Tim have flopped. If there is an audience, then where are they exactly.
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thwhtGuardian
Extraordinary Member
- Oct 20, 2023
- #18
Godlike13 said:
Tim is suppose to be the reason if as you say there is an audience for him. They can put one of their highest paid creators, a great artist, surround him with his friends, and still audiences wont show up. The more no one shows up, the less they can afford to put more costly creators on him. But again these projects are launching flat. Audiences aren't even showing up to see if the art is bad, or writing mediocre. But generally speaking, a character doesn't need to have the best book being published for readers to show up. Especially if they have an audience.
Quality really is king, if the writing and art are bad a book is going to suffer. Period. And again, no one needed to show up to see, it was a known factor going in. I hate Rossmo's art, I didn't need to see more to see if it was worth getting more of and I'm not alone on that. And same with Fitzmartin.
It's laughable that you don't think an A-list creative team couldn't sell a Tim Drake book, for adults (which make up most of the comic audience) the creative team matters much more than the character. You put say Mark Waid and Dan Mora on a Tim Drake book and I guarantee it would sell. Pretty much the only books that sell no matter the quality of the team are Batman, Spider-Man and maybe X-Men because of hardcore competitionists but for any other book you need good talent.
Where did Tim Drake hurt you that you're willing to reject reality this hard?
Godlike13
Dynamic Member
- Oct 20, 2023
- #19
thwhtGuardian said:
Quality really is king, if the writing and art are bad a book is going to suffer. Period. And again, no one needed to show up to see, it was a known factor going in. I hate Rossmo's art, I didn't need to see more to see if it was worth getting more of and I'm not alone on that. And same with Fitzmartin.
It's laughable that you don't think an A-list creative team couldn't sell a Tim Drake book, for adults (which make up most of the comic audience) the creative team matters much more than the character. You put say Mark Waid and Dan Mora on a Tim Drake book and I guarantee it would sell. Pretty much the only books that sell no matter the quality of the team are Batman, Spider-Man and maybe X-Men because of hardcore competitionists but for any other book you need good talent.
Where did Tim Drake hurt you that you're willing to reject reality this hard?
An A-list creative team didn't sell a Tim Drake book. Rejecting reality is seeing flop after flop and still pretending it has nothing to do with the character. Quality isn't king, Ric did better then Tim's last series. A book might suffer if the writing and art are bad, but for that to even matter readers need to show up in the first place.
thwhtGuardian
Extraordinary Member
- Oct 20, 2023
- #20
Godlike13 said:
An A-list creative team didn't sell a Tim Drake book. Rejecting reality is seeing flop after flop and still pretending it has nothing to do with the character. Quality isn't king, Ric did better then Tim's last series. A book might suffer if the writing and art are bad, but for that to even matter readers need to show up in the first place.
When did he last have an A-list creative ream?
He did well with Young Justice under Bendis, but that's a much different team than his recent solo.
Like I said, I didn't need to see more from Rossmo, the guy's art is just garbage so why would I need to buy the book and see it confirmed yet again?
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